Notes, comments and questions and answers on the seven AMX/3 Cars and mockups. Input welcome!
- Are the clay photos reported as April 11th 1968 really from November 4th 1968? Perhaps the first early completed clay presentation photos are from around April '68? I believe so.
- What year/month did AMC/Teague import Car #1 to the US? Was it 1973 or later? What was it's chassis number if it had one? WTDO 363 1/55/55? Do all 7 follow this chassis number convension? ANSWERS: #1 has no chassis number since it was the prototype never intended to be sold. Car 1 imported by AMC/Teague in 1973. ANSWERS: Cars #2, #4 seem to have a AutoOfficina SD style chassis number but were sold by Autocostruzioni SD to Werden and Demichieli. Cars #3 and #5 have an AMC VIN. Car #6 has the first Autocostruzioni SD chassis number *00001* and was initially dual branded as Autocostruzioni SD and Bizzarrini Livorno, but later branded as only Autocostruzioni SD and AMX-3 by Diomante. The chassis number of Car #7 and the Varedo is unknown to me. The AMX/3 Spider was sold by Bizzarrini as "Telaio No: 001" on the sale document.
- Did car #1 ever run and drive and was it initially finished before being sent to BMW for testing and were the parts and engine removed and used on later cars? (6 & 7?) Did #1 initially have a ZF transaxle and is this why it is longer and cars 2, 3 and 5 are shorter since they have the 4MXPD transaxle? ANSWER from Phil Olczyk per Diomante: "First car was finished by the crew of Diomante at BMW factory". I believe the photos of Gerry Meyers are him test driving the completed Car #1 in either Munich Bavaria Germany or in Italy in late summer to early fall of 1969. Original July 1969 color Polaroid's of Car #1 being driven at the BWM facility surfaced!
- Car #1 rear fender flares do not appear to be present in the old photo of it on the street in Moncalieri. Reported that Ian’s father and a friend added the rear fender flares based on the other cars.
- Car #1 are the exhausts exit ports in the body for heat or exhaust? There are cast aluminum trim rings. (I thought these were engine compartment heat exhausts...I see exhaust below like the other cars? These were also present on the AMXK fiberglass mockup but disappeared from the design after these two.
- Car #1 also has a rear cross member cut out and a K member added to hold the Italian trans. There is also a 390 and a OTO transaxle with Car #1. Ian stumbled upon a second OTO transaxle at a swap meet a few years ago.
- Car #1: Did Hal Siegel of AMC hand the initial job of creating the first prototype body to Sergio Coggiola of Carrozzeria Coggiola in Torino? Did Coggiola started the body but backed out and left the first body unfinished so Siegel turned the job over to Bizzarrini and Diomante? I believe this to be true.
- Who bought #2 on January 23rd 2017 from Jurgen Wilms? What city is the new owner located? ANSWER: Richard & David Biafora of Morgantown West Virgina.
- Car #5, what month did AMC import it? Did Car #5 come over with Car #3 or around the time of the project being canceled or later with the transaxles and/or Car #1? Using the VIN numbers I guess the #5 car is about two months older than the #3 and it was reported in early June the next car was due in 60 days, so #5 much have been finish about June '70. The problem is no U.S. photos exist of the then silver #5. Did Teague import this car later, perhaps with the extra Melara transaxles and car #1 in 1973? I think this is most likely. George Doughtie Jr bought the car in '85 later stated: "the car had about 200 miles on it and was not driveable". Descibed by Doughtie as, "needed lots of work because it was an orphan car and had rough, cobbled-up stuff on it". Reported that George had to have the instrumentation built since the car had none. It appears ONLY Car #3 was imported during the AMC funded project. ANSWER: Car #5 advertisement photos now found. Car #5 was finished (at least externally) and marketed as both American Motors and Bizzarrini Sciabola in the Italian magazine Quattroruote issue 181 january 1971. Tail lights identical to #6 and #4. Photos and road test in the article.
- When did AMC initially cancel the project? I've read July '70 and summer of 70. Apparently, it was before #4 was finished and before the 1970 Turin Show? ANSWER: Assuming Bizzarrini & Diomante were exploring the reported possibility of marketing these cars at their own expense, is this why #4 is longer like #6 & #7 with AMC suppling parts as reportedly offered? Is this why car #4 was shown at Turin 1970 or did AMC show it or was it a joint showing? Note the photo in my car #4 section that appears to be from the 1970 Turin Car Show. ANSWER: AMC did fund Car #4 to October 1970 but all other production funding was stopped by the end of July 1970. Bizzarrini began marketing his Sciabola by January 1971.
- When did Diomante finish his car #6? Was it around 71-72 or was it finished later (75-76) and marketed as Sciabola in an attempt to help OTO Melara to sell 4MXPD transaxles? ANSWER: Reported as finished in early '71 and later brought up to car show ready condition for the '76 Turin show.
- When did Giordannengo finish Car #7? Was it finished in the 90's with, before or after the Spider? Or was #7 finished earlier with or around the time #6 was finished?
- Was Car #4 (and #6 & #7) longer to potentially accept the ZF transaxle or was it to return the cars to the original shape designed by Teague or was it to more easily accommodate larger mufflers? Was car #2 (and #3 & #5) shortened because the 4MXPD was shorter and the original longer rear was not needed?
- What are the tail lights like on #4? The same as #6 or #7? Can someone please supply a picture of the back of car #4? I assume they are the same as #6 since they were built about the same time, late 1970. ANSWER: tail lights are identical to Car#6. 10/20/2020.
- Was Car #4 the only AMX/3 with a 360 engine and if so why the 360? I think because #4 was the first "production prototype" and those cars would get the 360 with the AMC AMX/3 optional engine being the 401. Car #4 was finished when the 390 was no longer available and the 401 was not yet available? The original 390 casting number 3190806 was in Car #3. Car #2 appears to have casting # 3195529, a replacement for the originally blown engine (see AMC letter regarding sale of Monza car) and the #2 valve cover tag 211X25 decode as Nov 25 1969 390 engine build date.
- Car #6 was listed as having a 360ci engine in the 1976 Italian newspaper that covered the Turin show. Is this correct, making both #4 and #6 built with the 360ci? Since they were built at the same time period of the project with the same intent, for Bizzarrini to continue the project without AMC financial support, this would make sense. Also the 70/71 360 may have been the only engine available at this time since the '70 390 production had ended and the '71 401 production had not yet begun. Plus the 360 was cheaper to make. ANSWER: 2022 update, Car #6 sold with a 290 block and Machine intake installed, unknown what happened to the 360. Was upgraded to an original 390 left over from the original project Italian parts stash 109W20 (Sept 20th 1968, a '69 390) with original Machine intake and exhaust manifolds! This could be the engine from Car #1 with the Machine intake and exhaust from the original '70 360 that was in the car.
- I'm guessing Car #7 has the 390 engine (maybe from Car #1 that was sent to the US in 1973 with no drive train), or just some other 390 that was obtained later. Which this correct? Or, does the Spider have the 390 and ZF from Car #1? Did Car #7 also get the braking system and all the other parts, components and systems that were missing from Car #1? ANSWER: Cars #4 & #6 were both sent an AMC 360 by AMC. I believe this was cost reducing in an attempt to market the car at a starting price under $10k to match the cost of the Panera and it's 351 engine.
- Was the Car #4 car shown at Turin in late 1970 as an AMC AMX/3 or Bizzarrini Sciabola or both (I assume both since the rights were turned over to Bizzarrini by this time)? ANSWER: was displayed as AMC only. See Nov '70 Quattroruote Salone Speciale. When Car #4 was sold in March 71, is that why #6 (and #5) was finished, so Bizzarrini would have a Sciabola to market and if so why no marketing material until '76? ANSWER: it appears Cars #6 and #5 were finished many months before Cars #4 and #2 were sold. Also, there was no Turin in 1971 show; the Nov '70 show was of the new '71 models, sometimes confusing the year of the show since it was 1970 but showed 1971 models.
- Car #9 Spider, what engine is really in it? I need a picture of the engine in the Spider if anyone can find one, please.
- Car #9 photo of the Spider under construction 08/23/1990. Interesting blue paint on the front sheet metal indicating that Bizzarrini had indeed started the Spider earlier. It looks like P538 sheet metal from early 70's construction reformed to the AMX/3 chassis #9. Letter from Roland D'Ieteren documents the history of Bizzarrini building this car in 70-71 to near completion.
- Jerry Werden, was your 2014 restoration finished? Can we please get current photos and status of your Car #4 please? ANSWER: Photos from 10/20/20 now included from the sale of the #4 Werden car. Who purchased this #4 Werden car??? ANSWER: The new owner wishes to remain anonymous for several months.
- What is the real story on the Campagnolo AMX/3 wheels? Now confirmed at least 11-12 sets were made by Campagnolo for the AMC AMX/3 project. I think only cars 3, 4, 5, and 7 left Autocostruzioni with the Campagnolo AMX/3 wheels and Diomante/Bizzarrini keeping the rest, one set for Car #6, and later selling a set for the #2 car Kirtland restoration. Note Car #2 originally came over with Tork Thrust wheels, but the spare was a Campy 40818 like Car #6. Bizzarrini used a set of AMX/3 wheels on the Varedo and Diomante used a set on a restoration of the '68 Manta and a 5300 GT America restoration. In 2022 when Diomante sold Car #6 with some old parts and AMX/K fiberglass body, two more extra sets of 5 wheels were with the parts. One extra set staying with Car #6 and the other extra set is going to Car #4 as a spare set. In May '22 another set of four wheels turns up in Milano Italy in storage for 50 years, now for sale for $9k Euros plus shipping, see Adelchi Romano on Facebook. Also, Paolo Romano has a set of AMX/3 wheels for sale, and these are the same set as Adelchi Romano. On July 18th 2023 Davide Tassi advertised yet another set for sale in Italy and he confirmed this is the same set of wheels that Paolo and Adelchi Romano are trying to sell for him so these three listings were the same set. The set was used for a while on the Manta but may be the same set on the red 5300, but this is currently unknown. If anyone has more information on the wheels, please let me know. I see they are somewhat similar to Campagnolo 40528 wheels used on the Ferrari 365 68-70. Even closer is Campagnolo Elektron wheels Casting number 40818 (appeared on Car #3 for the Rome press release and appeared on Car #1 during testing) and also similar is 40608. Also very similar is the Ferrari 275 GTB cast wheels. What part number are on the AMX/3 front and back wheels??? ANSWER: Campagnolo Elektron wheels casting number 40708 front and 40709 rear. Campagnolo worked with a magnesium alloy known as Elektron, and perfected low-pressure cast molding–a technique that enabled a given wheel to be 20-30% lighter than one cast of aluminum, with improved damping characteristics and a superior strength-to-weight ratio.
- Regarding the number of fiberglass mockups made: ANSWER: from Teague interview May/June 1974 Bulb Horn pages 43-44, Teague said there were two predecessors to the fiberglass prototype model donated to the Rippey's Veteran Car Museum. This means three fiberglass mockups were made: First was the 1968-9 AMX/K, was the second the AMX/2 presented in Feb '69 in Chicago and the third is the AMX/3 that was displayed in Feb '70 in Chicago and NY? Design details like DOT markers appears to be on the AMX/3 fiberglass mockup so I asked Tom to look for signs of that on his fibergalss body. Someone please provide photos of Feb 21 - March 1 1970 Chicago Auto Show!!!
- What car was presented at the 1970 New York Auto Show? ANSWER: The AMX/3 fiberglass mockup was shown in New York April '70. The '69 AMX/2 fiberglass mockup was presented in Chicago February '69. See photos on "Design Evolution Timeline Photos" page.
- Does Chassis #8 and Chassis #7 and Chassis #9 have an actual stamped Autocostruzioni SD chassis numbers? Someone in Belgium please get me the engine casting number and Autocostruzioni chassis numbers! Please send pictures of the engine and trans on Chassis #7 and #9!
- Per the latest restoration of Car #2, it had an OTO Melara 4MXPD transaxle (perhaps #001) and it had a different shift pattern than the later 4MXPD units. Beginning what number unit was the "production" design, #003? ANSWER: cars #2 and #3 had prototype 4MXPD units then the improved production run was made. Car #4 has 4MXPD 004. - - What number 4MXPD is in car #5, #6 and #7? What number 4MXPD will be installed in Car #1?
- The chassis order after #6 is unknown. Car #6 was stamped *00001* because it was the first car marketed and allowed to be owned by Autocostruzioni SD, although it was constructed under the AMC project. The AMX Spider could be considered AMX/3 Car #7 or #8 since it was constructed after Car #6, but since the body is more similar to a P538, it is discussed as an independent car, the AMX/3 Spider.
- What year/month did AMC/Teague import Car #1 to the US? Was it 1973 or later? What was it's chassis number if it had one? WTDO 363 1/55/55? Do all 7 follow this chassis number convension? ANSWERS: #1 has no chassis number since it was the prototype never intended to be sold. Car 1 imported by AMC/Teague in 1973. ANSWERS: Cars #2, #4 seem to have a AutoOfficina SD style chassis number but were sold by Autocostruzioni SD to Werden and Demichieli. Cars #3 and #5 have an AMC VIN. Car #6 has the first Autocostruzioni SD chassis number *00001* and was initially dual branded as Autocostruzioni SD and Bizzarrini Livorno, but later branded as only Autocostruzioni SD and AMX-3 by Diomante. The chassis number of Car #7 and the Varedo is unknown to me. The AMX/3 Spider was sold by Bizzarrini as "Telaio No: 001" on the sale document.
- Did car #1 ever run and drive and was it initially finished before being sent to BMW for testing and were the parts and engine removed and used on later cars? (6 & 7?) Did #1 initially have a ZF transaxle and is this why it is longer and cars 2, 3 and 5 are shorter since they have the 4MXPD transaxle? ANSWER from Phil Olczyk per Diomante: "First car was finished by the crew of Diomante at BMW factory". I believe the photos of Gerry Meyers are him test driving the completed Car #1 in either Munich Bavaria Germany or in Italy in late summer to early fall of 1969. Original July 1969 color Polaroid's of Car #1 being driven at the BWM facility surfaced!
- Car #1 rear fender flares do not appear to be present in the old photo of it on the street in Moncalieri. Reported that Ian’s father and a friend added the rear fender flares based on the other cars.
- Car #1 are the exhausts exit ports in the body for heat or exhaust? There are cast aluminum trim rings. (I thought these were engine compartment heat exhausts...I see exhaust below like the other cars? These were also present on the AMXK fiberglass mockup but disappeared from the design after these two.
- Car #1 also has a rear cross member cut out and a K member added to hold the Italian trans. There is also a 390 and a OTO transaxle with Car #1. Ian stumbled upon a second OTO transaxle at a swap meet a few years ago.
- Car #1: Did Hal Siegel of AMC hand the initial job of creating the first prototype body to Sergio Coggiola of Carrozzeria Coggiola in Torino? Did Coggiola started the body but backed out and left the first body unfinished so Siegel turned the job over to Bizzarrini and Diomante? I believe this to be true.
- Who bought #2 on January 23rd 2017 from Jurgen Wilms? What city is the new owner located? ANSWER: Richard & David Biafora of Morgantown West Virgina.
- Car #5, what month did AMC import it? Did Car #5 come over with Car #3 or around the time of the project being canceled or later with the transaxles and/or Car #1? Using the VIN numbers I guess the #5 car is about two months older than the #3 and it was reported in early June the next car was due in 60 days, so #5 much have been finish about June '70. The problem is no U.S. photos exist of the then silver #5. Did Teague import this car later, perhaps with the extra Melara transaxles and car #1 in 1973? I think this is most likely. George Doughtie Jr bought the car in '85 later stated: "the car had about 200 miles on it and was not driveable". Descibed by Doughtie as, "needed lots of work because it was an orphan car and had rough, cobbled-up stuff on it". Reported that George had to have the instrumentation built since the car had none. It appears ONLY Car #3 was imported during the AMC funded project. ANSWER: Car #5 advertisement photos now found. Car #5 was finished (at least externally) and marketed as both American Motors and Bizzarrini Sciabola in the Italian magazine Quattroruote issue 181 january 1971. Tail lights identical to #6 and #4. Photos and road test in the article.
- When did AMC initially cancel the project? I've read July '70 and summer of 70. Apparently, it was before #4 was finished and before the 1970 Turin Show? ANSWER: Assuming Bizzarrini & Diomante were exploring the reported possibility of marketing these cars at their own expense, is this why #4 is longer like #6 & #7 with AMC suppling parts as reportedly offered? Is this why car #4 was shown at Turin 1970 or did AMC show it or was it a joint showing? Note the photo in my car #4 section that appears to be from the 1970 Turin Car Show. ANSWER: AMC did fund Car #4 to October 1970 but all other production funding was stopped by the end of July 1970. Bizzarrini began marketing his Sciabola by January 1971.
- When did Diomante finish his car #6? Was it around 71-72 or was it finished later (75-76) and marketed as Sciabola in an attempt to help OTO Melara to sell 4MXPD transaxles? ANSWER: Reported as finished in early '71 and later brought up to car show ready condition for the '76 Turin show.
- When did Giordannengo finish Car #7? Was it finished in the 90's with, before or after the Spider? Or was #7 finished earlier with or around the time #6 was finished?
- Was Car #4 (and #6 & #7) longer to potentially accept the ZF transaxle or was it to return the cars to the original shape designed by Teague or was it to more easily accommodate larger mufflers? Was car #2 (and #3 & #5) shortened because the 4MXPD was shorter and the original longer rear was not needed?
- What are the tail lights like on #4? The same as #6 or #7? Can someone please supply a picture of the back of car #4? I assume they are the same as #6 since they were built about the same time, late 1970. ANSWER: tail lights are identical to Car#6. 10/20/2020.
- Was Car #4 the only AMX/3 with a 360 engine and if so why the 360? I think because #4 was the first "production prototype" and those cars would get the 360 with the AMC AMX/3 optional engine being the 401. Car #4 was finished when the 390 was no longer available and the 401 was not yet available? The original 390 casting number 3190806 was in Car #3. Car #2 appears to have casting # 3195529, a replacement for the originally blown engine (see AMC letter regarding sale of Monza car) and the #2 valve cover tag 211X25 decode as Nov 25 1969 390 engine build date.
- Car #6 was listed as having a 360ci engine in the 1976 Italian newspaper that covered the Turin show. Is this correct, making both #4 and #6 built with the 360ci? Since they were built at the same time period of the project with the same intent, for Bizzarrini to continue the project without AMC financial support, this would make sense. Also the 70/71 360 may have been the only engine available at this time since the '70 390 production had ended and the '71 401 production had not yet begun. Plus the 360 was cheaper to make. ANSWER: 2022 update, Car #6 sold with a 290 block and Machine intake installed, unknown what happened to the 360. Was upgraded to an original 390 left over from the original project Italian parts stash 109W20 (Sept 20th 1968, a '69 390) with original Machine intake and exhaust manifolds! This could be the engine from Car #1 with the Machine intake and exhaust from the original '70 360 that was in the car.
- I'm guessing Car #7 has the 390 engine (maybe from Car #1 that was sent to the US in 1973 with no drive train), or just some other 390 that was obtained later. Which this correct? Or, does the Spider have the 390 and ZF from Car #1? Did Car #7 also get the braking system and all the other parts, components and systems that were missing from Car #1? ANSWER: Cars #4 & #6 were both sent an AMC 360 by AMC. I believe this was cost reducing in an attempt to market the car at a starting price under $10k to match the cost of the Panera and it's 351 engine.
- Was the Car #4 car shown at Turin in late 1970 as an AMC AMX/3 or Bizzarrini Sciabola or both (I assume both since the rights were turned over to Bizzarrini by this time)? ANSWER: was displayed as AMC only. See Nov '70 Quattroruote Salone Speciale. When Car #4 was sold in March 71, is that why #6 (and #5) was finished, so Bizzarrini would have a Sciabola to market and if so why no marketing material until '76? ANSWER: it appears Cars #6 and #5 were finished many months before Cars #4 and #2 were sold. Also, there was no Turin in 1971 show; the Nov '70 show was of the new '71 models, sometimes confusing the year of the show since it was 1970 but showed 1971 models.
- Car #9 Spider, what engine is really in it? I need a picture of the engine in the Spider if anyone can find one, please.
- Car #9 photo of the Spider under construction 08/23/1990. Interesting blue paint on the front sheet metal indicating that Bizzarrini had indeed started the Spider earlier. It looks like P538 sheet metal from early 70's construction reformed to the AMX/3 chassis #9. Letter from Roland D'Ieteren documents the history of Bizzarrini building this car in 70-71 to near completion.
- Jerry Werden, was your 2014 restoration finished? Can we please get current photos and status of your Car #4 please? ANSWER: Photos from 10/20/20 now included from the sale of the #4 Werden car. Who purchased this #4 Werden car??? ANSWER: The new owner wishes to remain anonymous for several months.
- What is the real story on the Campagnolo AMX/3 wheels? Now confirmed at least 11-12 sets were made by Campagnolo for the AMC AMX/3 project. I think only cars 3, 4, 5, and 7 left Autocostruzioni with the Campagnolo AMX/3 wheels and Diomante/Bizzarrini keeping the rest, one set for Car #6, and later selling a set for the #2 car Kirtland restoration. Note Car #2 originally came over with Tork Thrust wheels, but the spare was a Campy 40818 like Car #6. Bizzarrini used a set of AMX/3 wheels on the Varedo and Diomante used a set on a restoration of the '68 Manta and a 5300 GT America restoration. In 2022 when Diomante sold Car #6 with some old parts and AMX/K fiberglass body, two more extra sets of 5 wheels were with the parts. One extra set staying with Car #6 and the other extra set is going to Car #4 as a spare set. In May '22 another set of four wheels turns up in Milano Italy in storage for 50 years, now for sale for $9k Euros plus shipping, see Adelchi Romano on Facebook. Also, Paolo Romano has a set of AMX/3 wheels for sale, and these are the same set as Adelchi Romano. On July 18th 2023 Davide Tassi advertised yet another set for sale in Italy and he confirmed this is the same set of wheels that Paolo and Adelchi Romano are trying to sell for him so these three listings were the same set. The set was used for a while on the Manta but may be the same set on the red 5300, but this is currently unknown. If anyone has more information on the wheels, please let me know. I see they are somewhat similar to Campagnolo 40528 wheels used on the Ferrari 365 68-70. Even closer is Campagnolo Elektron wheels Casting number 40818 (appeared on Car #3 for the Rome press release and appeared on Car #1 during testing) and also similar is 40608. Also very similar is the Ferrari 275 GTB cast wheels. What part number are on the AMX/3 front and back wheels??? ANSWER: Campagnolo Elektron wheels casting number 40708 front and 40709 rear. Campagnolo worked with a magnesium alloy known as Elektron, and perfected low-pressure cast molding–a technique that enabled a given wheel to be 20-30% lighter than one cast of aluminum, with improved damping characteristics and a superior strength-to-weight ratio.
- Regarding the number of fiberglass mockups made: ANSWER: from Teague interview May/June 1974 Bulb Horn pages 43-44, Teague said there were two predecessors to the fiberglass prototype model donated to the Rippey's Veteran Car Museum. This means three fiberglass mockups were made: First was the 1968-9 AMX/K, was the second the AMX/2 presented in Feb '69 in Chicago and the third is the AMX/3 that was displayed in Feb '70 in Chicago and NY? Design details like DOT markers appears to be on the AMX/3 fiberglass mockup so I asked Tom to look for signs of that on his fibergalss body. Someone please provide photos of Feb 21 - March 1 1970 Chicago Auto Show!!!
- What car was presented at the 1970 New York Auto Show? ANSWER: The AMX/3 fiberglass mockup was shown in New York April '70. The '69 AMX/2 fiberglass mockup was presented in Chicago February '69. See photos on "Design Evolution Timeline Photos" page.
- Does Chassis #8 and Chassis #7 and Chassis #9 have an actual stamped Autocostruzioni SD chassis numbers? Someone in Belgium please get me the engine casting number and Autocostruzioni chassis numbers! Please send pictures of the engine and trans on Chassis #7 and #9!
- Per the latest restoration of Car #2, it had an OTO Melara 4MXPD transaxle (perhaps #001) and it had a different shift pattern than the later 4MXPD units. Beginning what number unit was the "production" design, #003? ANSWER: cars #2 and #3 had prototype 4MXPD units then the improved production run was made. Car #4 has 4MXPD 004. - - What number 4MXPD is in car #5, #6 and #7? What number 4MXPD will be installed in Car #1?
- The chassis order after #6 is unknown. Car #6 was stamped *00001* because it was the first car marketed and allowed to be owned by Autocostruzioni SD, although it was constructed under the AMC project. The AMX Spider could be considered AMX/3 Car #7 or #8 since it was constructed after Car #6, but since the body is more similar to a P538, it is discussed as an independent car, the AMX/3 Spider.